
                  IN THE CIRCUIT COURT

           FOR ANNE ARUNDEL COUNTY, MARYLAND

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x 
MATTHEW O'REILLY              :
                              :
          Plaintiff, Pro Se   :
                              :
     v.                       :  CASE NUMBER:
                              :  C-02-CV-24-000546 
WASTE MANAGEMENT, et al.      :
                              :
          Defendants          :
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x  December 26, 2024

          PURSUANT TO NOTICE, the following video deposition of JEFFREY M. VIOLA was held before me, Kathleen S. Wilson, Notary Public, at 1029 Benfield Boulevard, Millersville, Maryland 21108 commencing at 11:23 a.m. when were present on behalf of the respective parties: 

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 APPEARANCES

     MATTHEW O'REILLY, Pro Se 
	 14316 Reese Boulevard
     B101   


               Huntersville, NC 28078

          On Behalf Of The Plaintiff

     SCOTT H. PHILLIPS, ESQUIRE
     Franklin & Prokopik, P.C.   
   ??? North Charles Street   
     Suite 600
     Baltimore, Maryland 21201
     (410) 409-0986

          On Behalf Of the Defendant, 

            Beatty Management Group, LLC



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     GEOFFREY M. GAMBLE, ESQUIRE
     Saul Ewing
     Harbor East
  ??? Fleet Street
     9th Floor
     Baltimore, MD 21202

          On Behalf of the Defendants,

            Waste Management, Inc.,

            Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. 

            Adam Tsottles and Ray Palmer


ALSO PRESENT
     Demetris Luck

     Samantha Cromwell, Video Operator

     Kelly Lynette Lucas, Notary Public



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                         I-N-D-E-X

WITNESS JEFFREY M. VIOLA Examination by Mr. O'Reilly                       Page   8

                      E-X-H-I-B-I-T-S No. 1     Sixteenth Amended and Restated          Page  22

          Management Agreement No. 2     Waste Management Registration           Page  66 No. 3     Waste Management Home Page              Page  90 No. 4     Baltimore Search Inquiry                Page  90 No. 5     Paul Marker Email Chain                 Page 105

          10/17/17 WM-0000109 No. 6     CNN Video                               Page 139

                   (Retained by Counsel)


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 Whereupon, 

                   JEFFREY M. VIOLA,  was called for examination by the Plaintiff, Matthew O'Reilly, pro se, and having been duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

          VIDEO OPERATOR:  My name is Samantha Cromwell.  I am working for Circus Siren Events, LLC, 14625 Baltimore Avenue 20245, PMB 245 in Laurel, Maryland 20707. 

          Today's date is December 26th, 2024.  We are at Unallocated Space, located at 1029 Benfield Boulevard, in Millersville, Maryland. 

          All right.  And the caption of the case is the Circuit Court of Anne Arundel County, Matthew O'Reilly vs. Waste Management, et al., CV-02-24-000546.

          And the deponent is Jeffrey Viola, designee for Waste Management, Inc., who is being deposed by Plaintiff, Matthew O'Reilly. 

          MS. LUCAS:  Good morning.  Kelly Lucas, Notary Public for the State of Maryland, the County


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of Anne Arundel.  If you would raise your right hand and state your name. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Matthew O'Reilly. 

          (Whereupon, the Plaintiff was duly sworn.)

          MS. LUCAS:  Would you raise your right hand and state your name, please? 

          MR. VIOLA:  Jeffrey Michael Viola. 

          (Whereupon, the Deponent was duly sworn.)

          MR. O'REILLY:  All right.  I just would note, just a few things.  We have two hours for the initial, half hour for cross, half hour for redirect.  I note the two times here are -- certainly my time now for the two hour. 

          And if the -- we'll take a break if you want more time for however long you need to -- any questions? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Yeah.  I just want to make a preliminary statement on the record.  We object to this deposition of Waste Management, Inc.  The Waste Management defendants in this case have filed a motion for a protective order seeking to hold off



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on this deposition for several reasons, including that there is a pending motion to dismiss for lack of personal jurisdiction for Waste Management, Inc.  We incorporate those arguments into -- and into our objections here this morning.


          We are appearing -- Waste Management, Inc. is appearing today, pursuant to a court ruling that was issued on December 12th.  The deposition today is limited to issues relating to personal jurisdiction. 


          The amount of time for the Plaintiff to ask questions has been limited by a court ruling to two and a half hours.


          In addition, we served objections to deposition topics in the notice of the deposition of Waste Management, Inc., dated December 20th, 2024, limiting the subject matter on which the witness for Waste Management, Inc. can testify this morning. 

          We also object to the location of the deposition for the reasons stated in our motion for

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 protective order.  The Waste Management defendant's position is it is unfair to -- into Maryland a Delaware corporation that's  headquartered in Houston, Texas.  We are doing so, again pursuant to the ruling of the court issued on December 12th, 2024.  Thank you. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Thank you. 

                      EXAMINATION

          BY MR. O'REILLY:
     Q.   Sir, welcome.  So sorry to drag you out the day after Christmas.  Thank you for coming.  This is the only date that was available to everyone, so here we are. 

          Could you please state your full name for the record? 
     A.   Jeffrey Michael Viola.  V-i-o-l-a. 

     Q.   And you work for?

     A.   Waste Management. 

     Q.   Okay.  Can you be a little more specific?  Do you work for Waste Management?  Is that an  entity? 

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     A.   I -- my employer is a Waste Management subsidiary, WM Corporate Services, Inc. 

     Q.   Okay. 

     A.   That is one of about 500 Waste Management separate corporations that operate in the United States and Canada.  That is my official employer. 

     Q.   Okay.  All right.  And, as you are aware, you are being deposed in this case that we just talked about. 

          Have you been deposed before? 
     A.   I have not. 

     Q.   Really.  Okay.  So this is our first time together. 

          So, in your deposition I'm going to be asking you questions and you are answering under oath.  So, you acknowledge that you are under oath and the testimony you give will be -- 

     A.   I so acknowledge. 

     Q.   Okay.  So there are a few differences between a deposition and a typical conversation.  First, the court reporter is attempting to


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transcribe everything we say, not in real time, of course, but will.  In a normal conversation obviously we do, you know, interrupt, talk over each other.  But here we need to respect the decorum so that the -- so that we're not interrupting each other.  And so, hopefully, we'll both be able to do that.

          And so, obviously, if there is an objection or something like that, we'd ask that you wait for the question to be finished before the objection gets stated. 

          If there is an objection, I will ask several questions, like the nature of the objection and all that and we'll go from there. 

          So, are we -- is everybody okay with that? 

          And so, obviously, since this is an oral transcript, then you are already doing well at this, the court reporter can't indicate head nods or anything like that, so everything needs to be verbal. 

          And so, unlike typical conversation -- 



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because you are under oath, so I've asked you to, you know -- giving false, misleading, or incomplete testimony under oath.  All right?

     A.   Understood. 

     Q.   Okay.  Is there any reason -- are you under unusual stress, or mental condition, or under the influence of any substance or sleep deprivation that would prevent you from giving truthful answers to my questions? 

     A.   There is not.  

     Q.   Okay.  There is nothing wrong with asking me to repeat a question or to explain a term if you don't understand a question.  But if you answer my question, I'm going to assume that you understood the question.  Do you understand? 

     A.   Yes. 

     Q.   Okay.  If you do need clarification of the question, look to me and I will clarify it.  That's -- you know -- here to help you with this, but not in that capacity. 

          And sometimes when I ask a question, you



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will have partial knowledge, but you will not be absolutely certain or have complete knowledge.  So if I ask you the temperature right now, you wouldn't necessary be able to tell me the exact degree, but you can give me an approximate answer.  And even if you couldn't, you'd probably know  whether it's hot, or cold, or somewhere in between.  So, in that circumstance, an answer of "I don't know," isn't appropriate, but an answer giving a range or estimate based on your knowledge with an explanation that it's a range is perfect.  Does that make sense?

     A.   It does.

     Q.   Okay.  And you agree to abide by that? 

     A.   I think we are going to have to take that as we go. 

     Q.   How so?

     A.   I will answer your questions to the best of my ability, but I don't know that I'll be able to give you a range. 

     Q.   Okay.  But -- but understanding that a


 partially true answer is not a complete answer and is not responsive under the rules of the court. 


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     A.   Understood. 

     Q.   Okay.  All right.  

     A.   Mr. O'Reilly, I'm an attorney, so --

     Q.   Okay.  All right. 

     A.   I might as well state that for the record. 

     Q.   Okay.  So you do know a -- okay.  

          I'm not going to skip over any of this because I need to hear it, but sometimes I might ask you a question which you aren't sure of the answer, but you can reference some document to answer it -- after you reference it.  So, if you need to reference something, please let me know and we'll give you the opportunity to do that. 

     A.   Okay. 

     Q.   I am entitled to what are considered complete answers.  This means an answer that is fully and completely answers my question. 

          So, for example, if you had orange juice, toast, and coffee for breakfast, and I ask you what


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you ate for breakfast, and you answered orange juice, this is not a complete answer, and you would not have properly answered the question. 

          But you are under no obligation to answer that question by telling me what you had for lunch, even if that was a more interesting meal. 

     A.   Understood. 

     Q.   Understood.  Okay.  

          Sometimes when I ask a question, you will have partial knowledge, but not absolutely certain or complete knowledge.  Sorry.  I already did that. 

          Okay.  So in answering the questions, if you have any knowledge available to answer the question, a response indicating a lack of knowledge is not appropriate.  Instead, we need you to provide all available information to answer the question.  Response indicating lack of knowledge is only appropriate if you have absolutely no information on the question being asked. 

     A.   Understood. 

     Q.   Now, you are here as the designee for


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Waste Management, Incorporated;  is that correct? 

     A.   I am the -- let me put in context what I do and that might help answer the question a little better.

          I'm the Assistant General Counsel for the Eastern United States for Waste Management.  In that capacity, I provide legal services for the Waste Management enterprise, all of the companies of Waste Management, at least with respect to the Eastern United States.  And I am here for this deposition in that capacity. 

     Q.   Okay.  Waste Management, Incorporated has nominated you as the designee for this deposition.  So you are speaking for Waste Management, Incorporated in your capacity here in this deposition. 

     A.   I don't speak for Waste Management, Incorporated.  I represent Waste Management, the entire family of companies, which includes Waste Management, Incorporated.  I provide legal services to that enterprise.  Being here for this deposition


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is part of the legal services I provide for the enterprise. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  Mr. Gamble, I have to object to this witness, that he is not the designee.  If he is not going to answer as the designee for Waste Management, Incorporated, he's not responsive. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  This is the designee that is available for Waste Management, Inc. for this deposition today. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:

     Q.   Okay.  Are you going to acknowledge that he is speaking for Waste Management, Incorporated, responsively as the designee for the purposes of this deposition by designee? 

     A.   In my capacity as counsel for Waste Management, which includes all of the Waste Management entities, including Waste Management, Inc., I'm here to give this deposition. 

     Q.   But that is not what you were called to do and that is not what Waste Management, Incorporated


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nominated you to do.  The reason that you are here is responsive to a court order for a deposition by designee by Waste Management, Incorporated, which means that the person who is sitting in your chair needs to be prepared and able to speak on behalf of Waste Management, Incorporated in order to comply with the court order. 
     A.   I am Waste Management, Inc., our ultimate parent company's designee for this deposition. 

     Q.   And so you are prepared to speak with knowledge about Waste Management, Incorporated? 

     A.   I'm prepared to speak with knowledge about the topics that the court ordered for this deposition. 

     Q.   Okay.  All right.  So you are acknowledging that you are, in effect, Waste Management, Incorporated sitting in the chair? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  How so?

          MR. GAMBLE:  He is here as a designee of Waste Management, Inc. and -- 


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          MR. O'REILLY:  He has not yet said that he will speak on behalf of Waste Management, Incorporated. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  He noted that position for Waste Management, Inc.  Mr. Viola is the designee for Waste Management, Inc. and will testify to the subject matter in the deposition notice, as modified by our objection -- December 20 -- 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Right.  But, Mr. Gamble, I appreciate what you're saying, but you are not on the ropes here, and you are not the person giving testimony.  I need the person who is giving testimony -- the witness to actually acknowledge that they are speaking on behalf of Waste Management, Incorporated for all things regarding Waste Management, Incorporated that were noted in the deposition. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  I am familiar with the rules, Mr. O'Reilly. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Yes, sir. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  When you note a deposition of


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a corporate entity, that corporate entity is allowed to designate a representative who will testify on behalf of Waste Management, Inc. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Correct. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Mr. Viola has testified this morning that he is providing information as the designee of Waste Management, Inc.  

          Please move on and ask questions of the witness. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  All right.  

          BY MR. O'REILLY:

     Q.   So as the deponent, Waste Management, Incorporated's designee, you are required to testify fully and knowledgeably about the topics listed in the designation -- deposition notice. 

          Did you prepare for this deposition?

     A.   Yes.  

     Q.   Okay.  Who did you meet with during your preparation?  I need names, titles, and responsibilities. 

     A.   No one. 


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     Q.   So you did not do any -- you did not speak with anyone about this? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  Asked and answered. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  It has not been answered.  He said that he -- the question that I asked, who did you meet with during your preparation. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  Asked and answered. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:

     Q.   So you had met with absolutely no one?

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  Asked and answered.  Please move on. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Mr. Gamble, it won't hurt him to answer a question. 

          THE WITNESS:  I was picked up at the train station by my attorney, Mr. Gamble. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  All right.  

          BY MR. O'REILLY:

     Q.   So you have spoken to no one else about this? 


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          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:

     Q.   What documents did you review in preparation for today's deposition? 

     A.   The affidavit of Courtney Tippy. 

          The order of the court setting this deposition.  

          The objections that were filed by our counsel to the deposition notice. 

          And I think it's the Sixteenth Management Services Agreement executed by a number of Waste Management entities, which goes into an explanation for how various subsidiaries provide services to various other subsidiaries within the Waste Management family of companies.  My guess is we'll get into that document at some point. 

     Q.   Okay.  Do you have a copy of that document with you? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  That's a question best as directed for me if we do have a copy. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  And I have --


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          Okay.  And I have -- I don't know if I need to enter this into evidence as a document.  Do you think I should? 

          THE REPORTER:  Would you like it marked as an exhibit? 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Yes.  I think I would like it marked.

          THE REPORTER:  Exhibit Number One marked. 

          (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Number One was marked for identification.)  

          BY MR. O'REILLY: 

     Q.   All right.  So, let's go through the topics that were noted for deposition. 

          So, you certified you are -- you are -- you are saying that you are prepared to speak for Waste Management, Incorporated about the formation, corporate structure, ownership, direction, and organization for Waste Management, Incorporated, included, but not limited to, its relationships with Maryland Waste Management, which should be construed throughout here to be comprised of Waste


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Management, Incorporated, Waste Management of Maryland, Incorporated, Waste Management Holdings, Incorporated, and any other incorporated public, private, or corporate entity under the control, ownership, direction, or obligation directly or indirectly of Waste Management, Incorporated, that either advises in or to, interacts with, or has any relationship with residents or businesses in Maryland from the Year 2000 to the present? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  Subject to the objections in the December 20th,  24 objections. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Your objection is noted.  Please answer the question.

          THE WITNESS:  Yes.  I've only been with Waste Management since January of 2005 only.

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Only.  Okay.  That does not relieve you of the obligation to me.  So Waste Management is under an obligation to provide -- 

     A.   I understand. 

     Q.   I am going to say it anyway.  Under an 


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obligation to provide the most knowledgeable person, or if they choose someone else who is not the most knowledgeable person for these topics to make that person the most knowledgeable.  I have serious concerns about your lack of preparation. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  You can ask the witness questions.  You cannot -- cannot speak to him that way.  Thank you. 

          THE WITNESS:  I am ready to answer your questions on those topics. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   We are going to go over each topic because I need to hear you say it. 

          So you are prepared to speak as Waste Management, Incorporation about the ownership, management, and control information regarding the Maryland Waste Management entities, including information pertaining to the membership of board of directors, senior leadership/management, and other roles and responsibilities that would tend to show the level of autonomy and self-governance for


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each, or the amount of control possibly or actually asserted on those entities by their owners, partners, associates, for the period of 2016 to the present? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  Subject to the objections in clarification of the topic number two in the December 20th, 2024 objections of the Waste Management defendants. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Objection is noted. 

          THE WITNESS:  I'm ready to answer your questions. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Okay.  Are you prepared to speak on behalf of Waste Management, Incorporated for figures and analysis of sales, marketing, advertising, and returns for all Maryland Waste Management entities doing business in Maryland for the Years 2016 to present? 

     A.   I am not. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  I am going to renew my objection to the witness for being unprepared. 





          MR. GAMBLE:  I am going to object to topic number three.  It has been narrowed in the December


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 20, 2024 objections. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Okay.  So, are you prepared to speak for Waste Management, Incorporated pertaining to figures and analysis of sales, marketing, advertising, and returns for all Maryland Waste Management entities doing business in Maryland for the years 2016 to present? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  As limited and objected to in the December 20,  24 filing. 

          THE WITNESS:  I'm prepared to answer questions regarding Waste Management, Incorporated and whether or not it is subject to the jurisdiction of a Maryland court. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   That does not answer my question, sir. 

     A.   That's what I'm prepared to testify on. 

     Q.   Okay.  So you're saying that you are not prepared to testify on behalf of Waste Management


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regarding the figures, analysis, sales, marketing or advertising returns for all matters of Waste Management -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  We have objected to that deposition topic and we have narrowed it to include -- let me read that. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  Hang on. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Waste Management -- no.  I get to object. 

          Waste Management, Inc. will produce a witness to testify regarding the assets of Waste Management, Inc's sales, marketing, and advertising in Maryland during the relevant time period.  Mr. Viola will be -- is prepared and will testify regarding that subject, as limited by my December 20th, 2024 letter. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Mr. Gamble, I appreciate your objection and it is noted.  But the objection is between you and the court, not you and me. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  That's incorrect, sir. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  No.  The -- this is a


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deposition.  The witness will answer the question and the court will decide whether there is merit to the objection.  It doesn't stop the witness from answering the questions in the meantime. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Sir, are you prepared to answer on behalf of Waste Management, Incorporated to the level of awareness, involvement, and/or control capability, whether or not regularly asserted of Waste Management, Incorporated on the business dealings, advertising contract, interstate commerce, inter- company coordination, training, operations and other aspects -- by Waste Management of Maryland, Incorporated, other Waste Management entities, or any Waste Management subsidiaries in or outside of Maryland with which the Maryland Waste Management entities directly interact? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  You're submitting the letter.  Objecting to the scope of topic number four and limited testimony by which this witness is going to provide today. 


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          MR. O'REILLY:  Geoffrey, would you -- sorry.  Mr. Gamble, would you care to make this a standing objection for that one thing? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  No. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  Fair enough. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Sir, are you prepared to testify on behalf of Waste Management, Incorporated regarding fiscal information, including but not limited to profit and loss, tax returns and schedules, and  transfer of funds, property, liabilities, or  obligations concerning Waste Management, Incorporated and Maryland Waste Management entities for the years to the present? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  We've objected to that topic in its entirety. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay. 

          THE WITNESS:  I can testify about what Waste Management, Inc. does in the state or it doesn't do in the state of Maryland, what Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. or a subsidiary that


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 operates in the state of Maryland does or doesn't do in the state of Maryland. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Regarding fiscal information, profit and loss, tax returns, schedules -- 

     A.   I don't know fiscal information, profit and loss off the top of my head.  This is all publicly available information.  I certainly don't have that at my fingertips. 

     Q.   So the answer to the question is no? 

     A.   Correct. 

     Q.   Okay.  Are you prepared to speak on behalf of Waste Management, Incorporated regarding directives, policies, guidelines, or other authoritative or controlling documents from, by, or through Waste Management, Incorporated requiring action, inaction, or modification to any -- any aspect of any Maryland Waste Management entity's business? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  Subject to the objections in the December 20, 2024 letter.  He 


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can't answer questions about that. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  He can't answer questions. 

 Okay. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Can you answer questions -- will you answer on behalf of Waste Management, Incorporated's about human resources structure, organization, disciplinary procedures, and protocols and any other aspects of personnel management, including, but not limited to, operator and managerial training within the Maryland Waste Management entities and any other aspects, coordinated, performed, directed, or otherwise influenced by any outside affiliate, owner, agent, or contractor? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  Waste Management defendants have objected to that deposition topic.  It is not relevant to the issue of personal jurisdiction. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Noted. 

          THE WITNESS:  It's a broad topic.  I can


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testify to some of that.  I'll have to take your questions one at a time. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   You are required to be here to testify on behalf of --

     A.   I understand, Mr. O'Reilly.  I -- 

     Q.   So the answer is -- the answer is no? 

     A.   That's what you're saying.  I gave my answer. 

     Q.   All right.  So if you are not prepared to fully testify on that topic, then the answer is not yes. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  The topics in that -- the information sought in that topic is not relevant to the issue of personal jurisdiction.  The court has issued that someone from Waste Management, Inc. testify to matters of personal jurisdiction.  That is not one of them. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Mr. Gamble, it is not up to you to police what is relevant or not in the seeking of information. 


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          MR. GAMBLE:  Actually, it is, sir.  We are allowed to serve objections. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  You are allowed to -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Excuse me.  If we are going to interrupt, that's going to be much more -- 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Understood. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  -- longer than your two and a half hours. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Understood.

          MR. GAMBLE:  Under the rules, we are allowed to serve objections.  If you have an issue with an objection, you need to -- we need to reconfer and reach an agreement or seek court order to require that deposition topic be given. 

          That was not provided.  We are objecting to the deposition topics, as noted in my letter. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Understood.  Please answer the question. 

          THE WITNESS:  You've asked a very broad question with an entire litany of -- of potential topics. 


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          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay. 

          THE WITNESS:  I can probably answer some, maybe even many of your questions.  I don't know that I can answer all of them. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Okay.  So you cannot give me a complete answer on those topics? 

     A.   I don't know until you ask. 

     Q.   So I need you to say no. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  Asked and answered.  You don't need anything.  You need to ask the questions and he'll give you the answers.  Move on. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Are you prepared to testify about Waste Management, Incorporated's knowledge that Waste Management, Incorporated does or does not do business or has or has not done business in Maryland, or their direct -- or by directing the actions of Waste Management entities? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  One moment.  That


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topic as you read, Mr. O'Reilly, is different than the topic number eight.  So I think we will be able to provide that information about knowledge that Waste Management, Inc. has not conducted business in Maryland during the relevant time period. 

          THE WITNESS:  I think I can probably answer those questions.  I'll have to hear what the questions are. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Okay.  Are you prepared to speak on behalf of Waste Management, Incorporated about all non- privileged communications, electronic or otherwise, engagement letters, invoices, bills, payments and contact history regarding Waste Management's associations with any person at Saul Ewing or other counsel or firm relevant to this matter?

     A.   I couldn't possibly testify to all -- every communication. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  And I'm going to object to that on the grounds that it is beyond the scope of the deposition, as stated in our December 20,  24


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letter. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  The objection is noted. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   We're almost there. 

          Are you prepared to testify on behalf of Waste Management, Incorporated regarding communications, including -- including, but not limited to, emails, texts, intranet posts -- intranet posts, responses, or other presence, and phone call records to or from any of the -- your communications media under the potential, actual, partial, or full control of Waste Management, Incorporated, any Maryland Waste Management entity, or any affiliated, contracted, owned, or associated entity thereof from the period of January 1st, 2016 to the present? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  We object to that topic as not relevant to the subject matter of the deposition in our December 20,  24 letter. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Noted. 

          THE WITNESS:  I can't possibly testify as to that entire litany of communications between


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 people. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   All right.  Are you prepared to testify on behalf of Waste Management, Incorporated about the DriveCam system used by Waste Management, Incorporated, or any Maryland Waste Management entity, including technical details, such as network connections, camera, and other devices stored by infrastructure or private interest  incident report, engagement, management, -- policies and procedures -- of education, asset loading, and secure -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  As noted in our December 20,  24 letter.  That has nothing to do with the subject matter of this deposition.  

          THE WITNESS:  The answer is no. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Okay.  The -- taking of routes, customer stops, scheduling, and logistics between -- for the routes over which Adam Tsottles had direction,


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control, or influence in 2017 on behalf of Waste Management, Incorporated?

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  As stated in the December 20,  24 letter, that topic has nothing to do with the subject matter of this deposition. 

          THE WITNESS:  The answer is no. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Are you prepared to speak on behalf of Waste Management, Incorporated about the decision, review -- and approved process that -- the aftermath of the incident on the morning of  October 16, 2017, including the parties' notes  decision makers and/or consulted entities, such as supervisors, managers, in and outside counsel, et cetera, whose influence or guidance resulted in the filing of the application of statement of charges by Adam Tsottles on October 17, 2017?

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  As stated in the December 20, 2024 letter, that topic is beyond the scope of the subject matter of this deposition.

          THE WITNESS:  I cannot testify to that. 


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          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Are you prepared to testify on behalf of Waste Management, Incorporated about any property, real, intellectual, or other owned or controlled by Waste Management, Incorporated used in Maryland for the purposes of advertising, brand building, awareness, solicitation, licensing, customer retention, or any other type of interactions with Maryland businesses or residents?

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  Subject to the objections in our December 20, 204 letter. 

          THE WITNESS:  I can testify to that. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Okay.  Thank you.  We (Inaudible). 

          So, first things first.  So you said that you haven't received and you haven't seen any of the -- any other documents.  And I presume you have not seen the DriveCam video that was recorded on the 16th of October? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  I'm not sure that's what he testified to. 


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          THE WITNESS:  I don't recall seeing the DriveCam video in this -- the incident you are referring to from October of 2017. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Okay.  You worked for Waste Management, though, in October 2017.

     A.   I did. 

     Q.   Okay.  Were you aware of this incident?

     A.   I wasn't.

     Q.   Okay.  When were you first made aware of the incident? 

     A.   Probably when it became a litigation matter.  I believe you instituted a lawsuit against Waste Management in federal court at some point afterwards.  I think that's the first time I became aware of it.  I don't recall it before then. 

     Q.   All right.  Do you know of anyone else who was aware of the incident, prior to that? 

     A.   I can't answer that.  I have no idea who else within the company was aware of it or weren't. 

     Q.   Again, I'm just going to renew the


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objection that the witness is unprepared and --

          MR. GAMBLE:  Mr. O'Reilly, Waste Management, Inc. has nothing to do with this lawsuit.  They have nothing to do with the operations in Maryland.  And so, it would come as no surprise that a Waste Management, Inc. witness does not have knowledge of the subject matter of something that happened outside his purview.  Thank you. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Have you been instructed not to review any documents to speak (Inaudible)? 

     A.   I am not answering what my attorney has instructed me to do. 

     Q.   Okay.  Anyone else?  Anyone who is not -- there is attorney/client privilege on that one. 

     A.   Correct.

     Q.   And no one with whom you do not have privilege has been -- advised you to do that? 

     A.   To not review documents? 

     Q.   Right. 


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     A.   Nobody has asked me about that, one way or the other. 

     Q.   Okay.  Does Waste Management have a copy of the DriveCam video in its possession? 

     A.   When you say "Waste Management," who do you mean? 

     Q.   Well, I mean any of the Waste Management entities. 


          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  That's beyond the scope of the deposition.  I'm happy to have you lay some foundation about the incident, Mr. O'Reilly, but this deposition is about whether or not Waste Management, Inc. does business in Maryland or not. 

          THE WITNESS:  I don't know whether the DriveCam video still exists, whether it was provided.  I don't know. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  All right.

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   So talk to me about the DriveCam video system.  So, DriveCam video is used throughout Waste Management.


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          Now, according to what -- Waste Management is -- Waste Management, Inc. is doing business as Waste Management, but I don't know if that's a legal -- is that a legal entity that it is doing business as? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  I think there were four or five questions in there, but I'm going to object to the question asking about the DriveCam.  That's beyond the scope of this deposition testimony.  And I am instructing the witness not to answer that question. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  You are instructing the witness.  I think that's highly improper, sir. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  This is a deposition that is limited to the issue of personal jurisdiction.  DriveCam video has nothing to do with that in the way that you framed that question. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Shared infrastructure between subsidiaries of Waste Management, Incorporated and -- and tend to lend itself to providing personal jurisdiction to a company that


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is not resident in Maryland.  And so, from that perspective, we are going to continue with this line of questioning.

          THE WITNESS:  The question you have asked is broad.  I'm going to try to answer it, as best I can. 

          Waste Management, Incorporated, the ultimate parent company of the Waste Management family of companies, is a holding company.  As a holding company, all it does is hold the stock of its direct subsidiary, Waste Management Holdings, Inc. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay. 

          THE WITNESS:  Waste Management, Incorporated, the company at the top, doesn't have any employees, doesn't own any property, doesn't own any intellectual property.  Well, the only property it owns is the stock of Waste Management Holdings, Inc.  Beyond that, it doesn't own any real property.  It doesn't own any vehicles.  It's simply a holding company. 


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          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay. 

          THE WITNESS:  Waste Management Holdings, Inc., directly beneath Waste Management, Inc., is also nothing but a holding company.  It holds the stock of other subsidiaries.

          There's about 500 subsidiaries in the United States.  They are not all owned by Waste Management Holdings, Inc., but Waste Management Holdings, Inc. holds the stock of about -- I think it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 other corporate entities.  Those corporate entities, in turn, hold the stock of other corporate entities beneath them.

          I tell you all this so that you have an understanding of the structure for Waste Management, Inc. through Waste Management Holdings, Inc., and then down to the operating subsidiaries, including Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. 

          So there's a corporate tree, so to speak.  So, intellectual property, computer systems, things like that, aren't owned by Waste Management, Inc. 


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One of those 500 subsidiaries that I mentioned owns those types of things.

          And by contract, those subsidiaries provide all of those services.  And I can give you the litany of services that are provided to the entire family of companies by a handful of subsidiaries, that we refer to as service providers. 

          Every one of the other companies, including Waste Management, Inc., is a service recipient under those contracts.  

          Exhibit One is the most recent version of the agreement that establishes that relationship.

          So when you talk about DriveCam, Waste Management, Inc. doesn't own DriveCam.  Another entity owns DriveCam.

          Another entity owns all the intellectual property and all of that is licensed to all of the other Waste Management family companies under this agreement.

          Fees are paid for that and accounted for. 


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It's all done at arm's length.  This is a relatively standard way for big corporate entities that operate through a number of subsidiaries, to set up the services that some or many, or maybe even all of those subsidiaries would utilize.

          Each individual entity doesn't need to have its own accounting, or auditing, or computer service providers, or legal representation, or tax -- even management.  That would be inefficient for all 500 companies to have to set all of that up separately.  So there are service providers identified in that agreement that provide all of those services to the rest of the company.

          So, I'm giving you this long answer to try to put into context why DriveCam, while trucks operated by Waste Management of Maryland use DriveCam.  They don't use DriveCam because Waste Management, Inc. provided DriveCam to them.  They use DriveCam because a different service provider is in charge of DriveCam and licenses it to the entire family of companies. 


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          That's a lot, I know, but I think the context will help you understand a little better.  When you ask questions like that, I hear them through the structure as I know it and I'm just trying to explain the structure to you. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  I understand, sir.  Thank you for the information. 

          THE WITNESS:  Okay. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   So, am I to understand that Waste Management of Maryland is not required to use the structural, or the infrastructure, or the DriveCam structure, or any of the other services that are provided through the Waste Management family? 

     A.   Well, Waste Management of Maryland is owned by Waste Management Holdings.  Waste Management of Maryland has officers and directors of its own.

          Waste Management Holding has officers and directors of its own.  It tells its subsidiaries what it should be doing to operate the business.


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          So, Waste Management in Maryland doesn't just get to do whatever it wants, whenever it wants.  It's part of the Waste Management family of companies.  

     Q.   And does Waste Management Holdings provide that through high level strategic guidance in terms of, you know, Waste Management -- Waste Management's --

     A.   Well, Waste Management of Maryland has its own offices and directors that dictate its business strategy and its business pursuits.  So, Waste Management of Maryland dictates what it's going to do, through its own officers and directors. 

     Q.   Okay.  And just as an aside, you mentioned that Waste Management Holdings doesn't have -- doesn't hold stock in all of the companies.  Who is the parent company?  Who actually holds stock in Waste Management of Maryland? 

     A.   Waste Management of Maryland, 100 percent of its stock is owned by Waste Management Holdings, Inc. 


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     Q.   Okay.  Are there other business entities in Maryland that are part of the Maryland -- part of the Waste Management's family?
     A.   Yes.  There -- Waste Management of Maryland is -- has three sister companies, also  owned by Waste Management Holdings, Inc.

          They -- one is called Pappy's, P-a-p-p-y, Inc. 

          One is called Harwood, Inc. 

          And one was called Waste Management Disposal Services of Maryland, Inc.  

          Those three entities, the only thing they did was operate landfills in the state of Maryland that are now closed.  So those sister companies own closed landfills and that's all they do. 

     Q.   Okay.  

     A.   Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. is the parent of a subsidiary of its own called Garnet, G- a-r-n-e-t, of Maryland, Inc., which owns and operates a rail transfer station in Annapolis. 

          I'm trying to think if Waste Management of


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Maryland, Inc. owns any other corporate subsidiaries.  I don't -- I don't believe it does.  So it has three sister companies, one subsidiary.

          Within Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. there are different divisions -- not separate corporations, but different divisions.  And they are, for the most part, hauling outlets. 

          What I mean by that is, its locations where our trucks are based.  So, Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. -- these are divisions, not separate corporations -- there is a hauling division in Baltimore.  There's one in Gaithersburg, Maryland.  There's one in Upper Marlboro, Maryland.  There's one in Southern Maryland.  I can't remember the exact town the Southern Maryland hauling company is -- is located in.   And there's one in Western Maryland, and I can't remember the exact town the Western Maryland hauling company is located in.  

          These are just locations where trucks are based and they run routes, collect trash from our


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customers, deliver it to landfills or transfer stations, and then return home.  

          So that's the basic structure of Waste Management of Maryland. 

     Q.   Okay.  You mentioned that Waste Management of Maryland has its own board of directors and who appoints that board? 

     A.   Waste Management of Maryland appoints its board. 

     Q.   Appoints its own board?

     A.   Yes. 

     Q.   From what -- how does that work?

     A.   It selects board members that will operate it.  I -- 

     Q.   I'm not -- just a trickle down employer.  I don't actually understand how board selection works.  So is it a pool of people that preapproved?  Is it 	 simply, can they just go out on the street and say, "Hey, you look like a good board member"?

     A.   No.  It's a corporation selects -- a corporation, according to its documents of


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incorporation and its bylaws, must have a board.  A board can be one person.  So that board is selected by Waste Management of Maryland.  Its officers are selected by Waste Management of Maryland.  It's an independent corporation that operates as an independent corporation, even though its part of a family of companies. 
     Q.   That makes sense.  All right.  

          So -- but, let me go back to what you said earlier.  So it is entirely free make its own decisions on a day-to-day basis? 

     A.   It's part of the Waste Management family of companies, so it is operating as a Waste Management entity.  So it is going to continue to operate as a Waste Management entity. 

     Q.   Okay.  

     A.   It's not going to become an ice cream shop.  It's going to be a solid waste recycling company. 

     Q.   Okay.  Well, you don't have to go to that extreme.  So, I know this is what I'm not -- I'm


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 not quite grasping. 

          So in terms of the -- so, if you wanted to say, like, you know, you've got that beautiful green and gold color scheme that goes on there.  Certainly, if they wanted to change it to, you know, red and purple, they -- you're saying that Waste Management of Maryland has the independent authority to be able to make that decision on its own behalf so that it can change the colors? 

     A.   No. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection. 

          THE WITNESS:  No, it does not.  

          MR. O'REILLY:  What's the objection? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Calls for speculation.  You're asking a hypothetical.

          MR. O'REILLY:  That's allowed in deposition. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  For an expert, yes. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  No, it's generally allowed. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   So -- yeah.  So you're saying that they


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would not be necessarily allowed to change that? 

     A.   They would not be allowed to do that.  No. 

     Q.   Okay.  All right.  Who would make the decision about its disallowance for that?  Where does that decision come from?  Who is the person,  or people, or entity that is in charge of that? 

     A.   Well, its officers wouldn't decide to do that.  I mean, I don't understand your hypothetical.  Why -- why would a waste management operating subsidiary decide to change its color scheme?  Okay.  It's just not an issue that they would ever decide upon.  

     Q.   Well, it's not a matter of whether they would.  It's a matter if they are able to. 

     A.   No.  It's beyond the purview of what they are officers and directors to do.  I mean, they are governed by the bylaws of the company. 

          So Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. has a set of bylaws.  The officers and directors have to enforce those bylaws.  So they couldn't just run amuck and -- 


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     Q.   What do the bylaws say that would prevent them from doing that?  What's the -- 

     A.   You'd have to read the bylaws.  I'm not going to paraphrase the bylaws.  The bylaws require them to operate the company as a Waste Management operating subsidiary in the state of Maryland. 

     Q.   Okay.  Outside of the board of Waste Management, are there any people or any entities that have the ability to hire and fire within Waste Management of Maryland? 

     A.   Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. would make all decisions regarding hiring and firing employees of Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. 

     Q.   Okay.  And in terms of removing board members, it's all self contained as well? 

     A.   The bylaws would describe exactly how   board members can and can't be added or removed.  I mean, so it's all in the bylaws. 

     Q.   I haven't seen the bylaws, so -- you're citing them to me, but I don't have anything to reference. 


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          In terms of the -- I'm sorry.  From the perspective of -- I had another thought and it's gone. 

          So, does Waste Management handle its own HR department?  Waste Management of Maryland handles its own HR department? 

     A.   Human resources are one of the services provided by the WM Service providers, under that management services agreement.  It's -- we wouldn't have 500 separate HR departments.  We would have a management service provider provide HR services for all of the subsidiaries in a certain area. 

     Q.   You know, for efficiency sake, I agree with you.  But my question is from an -- mean to you if the entities are not available or not allowed to do things on their own, even if they might need to do them?  Even if they don't exercise that right, they still don't have the right to do -- to make operational decisions on their own behalf. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  I'm objecting to


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the form of the question.  

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  It was compound and confusing. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  All right.  I can rephrase. 

          THE WITNESS:  Corporate entities need to operate according to their bylaws.  That's the only way I can answer your question. 

          If I might, the way the management services agreements are set up, again, everything from audit and accounting and cash management, so that's accounts payable and accounts receivable, tax, human resources, legal services, insurance and risk management, and even corporate management services, information systems, intellectual property, all of that is provided for all of the entities by -- again, it's about a half dozen, maybe eight, service providers and those are some of those 500 entities. 

          The cost of all of that is tracked and


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then allocated amongst every one of those 500 companies every year, every quarter, under generally accepted accounting principles.  I think the agreement even allows the service providers to profit at six percent.  I think everybody pays a percent payment for what's allocated to them as their portion of all of that. 

          So that's all defined in the agreement.  So Waste Management of Maryland would get its HR services in that manner and pay for those services through an accounting entry.  

          So that's what we -- a long way to come back to your request about what do you mean by arm's length.  That's what I mean by arm's length.  It's a contract relationship, independent contractor, contract relationship.  Money changes hands at 106 percent of the value of the services provided, as defined in that agreement. 

     Q.   Okay.  And so it sounds -- I have worked in a number of large -- you know, large organizations.  And what you're describing sounds


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to me very similar to departments within a large corporate entity.  You know, some organizations will actually set these up in -- they are the same way.  Shared services, shared infrastructure, shared resources.  You know, you get all the benefits and the efficiencies.  But they don't set them up as individual companies.  They set them up as just divisions within the same company. 

          Other than just the fact that there are bylaws and there is a charter, and there are -- there is a board of directors, what is this that makes this different from a -- just a division within an ordinary company, as opposed to a separate entity? 

     A.   All I can say in response to that is every company is a separate corporate entity.  What you're describing, divisions, we have divisions within corporations.  But I'm talking about every single one of our corporate entities are separate corporations with their own officers and directors, bylaws, corporate documents.  They maintain all


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corporate formalities.  

          So if you are likening one company with many divisions to many companies, I don't know that I -- I don't know that those two things overlap the way you think they do. 

     Q.   I'm just trying to -- I'm trying to envision how the -- the appearance -- the actual -- the assignment of the board of directors, the adopting of bylaws, changes the operational control that the parent company has over the subsidiary?

     A.   Well, the parent -- you know, the parent always controls when its subsidiaries -- I mean, it owns the stock of those subsidiaries.  It requires that the subsidiaries follow their bylaws. 

          The bylaws establish what that subsidiary can and can't do.  

     Q.   Okay.  And the bylaws are established as a part of the formation of the company by the parent company? 

     A.   Yes.  

     Q.   Okay.  


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     A.   Well, each company establishes their own bylaws. 

     Q.   Okay.  Are they -- these are like a stock bylaws that they have adopted, or is it -- 

     A.   I can't say that.  I haven't looked at the bylaws of every company. 

     Q.   Okay.  All right.  And (Inaudible).

          And in terms of -- so, as far as Waste Management -- so each of these companies is actually doing business with Waste Management of Maryland;  right? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  Which companies? 

          MR. O'REILLY:  So --

          THE WITNESS:  The service providers?

          MR. O'REILLY:  The service providers.

          THE WITNESS:  Yes.  

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Okay.  All right.  And Waste Management Holdings is doing business with Waste Management of Maryland? 

     A.   Waste Management Holdings doesn't do


 business.  Waste Management Holdings holds stock. 


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 That's all it does. 

     Q.   Okay.  All right.  

          But it does -- but Waste Management Holdings does some advertising in Maryland;  right? 

     A.   Waste Management Holdings does no advertising in Maryland.  Waste Management of Maryland does advertising in Maryland. 

     Q.   I haven't been able to find anything about -- does Waste Management of Maryland have its own website? 

     A.   Usually not.  We have a Waste Management website for the entire enterprise.  One of the service providers controls our information technology, like our website. 

     Q.   Okay.  

     A.   And all of that is provided to all of the WM companies that operate in the various states. 

     Q.   Who actually owns the website?

     A.   I think WM Intellectual Property, LLC is probably the owner of the website.  I'd have to


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check that.  I don't know that off the top of my head, but that's something that is -- is easy to determine.

          We -- we own WM.com.  That's not the only website we own.  We own WM.com.  That is our homepage, for lack of a better description.  

          But, again, Waste Management, Inc. doesn't own that.  Waste Management Holdings, Inc. doesn't own that.  But one of the service provider subsidiaries would be the owner of that, if -- to the extent there is an owner of that. 

          If we license it from some web provider we like -- you know, there's the license holder would be one of those service providers.  It wouldn't be one of the parents. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  I'm going to enter this into evidence, just because I want to try to get verification on this.  So this is the Whois record for WM.com, which was captured yesterday.  And I can -- I'm sorry.  Again, without having paper, so you can see that this is actually, you know, the --


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the Whois.com.  And this shows the Whois record of the actual ownership of -- 

          THE WITNESS:  I don't mean to interrupt you.  I don't know what Whois is. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  I'm sorry.  So this is the domain registration information that is registered with the internet -- the internet registrar. 

          THE WITNESS:  Okay.  

          MR. O'REILLY:  So this is the record that shows who is -- who actually has claimed ownership of WM.com.  Any objection to this? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Yeah.  I object on the grounds that the witness can't control the document, can't see it -- 

          MR. O'REILLY:  I'm sorry. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  -- and I don't think we're marking it, but -- 

          THE WITNESS:  I'm not sure I can say much about it. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Well, there's a very specific question I have for you here. 


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          THE WITNESS:  Okay.  

          MR. O'REILLY:  Can you check and see if that's on?  It's a button on the back with a red light. 

          There we go.  All right.  Yeah.  Take your time and you're welcome to read it through. If you need me to scroll up or down, let me know. 

          (Shares screen.) 

          MR. GAMBLE:  We're marking this as an exhibit?

          MR. O'REILLY:  Yes.  We're going to mark this as an exhibit. 

          THE WITNESS:  I see the document on the screen.  I'm not sure -- 

          THE REPORTER:  Exhibit Number Two marked. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Thank you. 

          THE REPORTER:  It will be marked after the deposition. 

          (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Number Two  was marked for identification.)  

          MR. O'REILLY:  All right. 


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          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   So this is the Waste Management's registration for WM.com.  And you can see that the name is registered under Waste Management.  But you said that that's not actually an entity? 

     A.   Waste Management, without any corporate indicia, like Inc. or corporate, or anything like that, is just a service mark.  We -- one of our intellectual property -- and we have many, many, many pieces of intellectual property, which I think are attached to the -- to the management services agreement.  One of our service marks is just Waste Management.

          WM standing alone is another of our service marks.  So when you see the name "Waste Management," that's the service mark Waste Management, not the corporate entity, Waste Management, Inc. 

          If it was the corporate entity, it would say Waste Management, Inc. 

     Q.   Okay. 


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     A.   People get that wrong all the time.  People that we don't control sometimes lists Waste Management, Inc. in places that they shouldn't list Waste Management, Inc. 

     Q.   I can't imagine that's confusing.

     A.   But this -- when we are in control of what gets stated, we would use the service mark Waste Management. 

     Q.   Okay.  All right.  That's great to hear.  And I -- this is what I was trying to think of earlier.  

          So, the Waste Management brand name that -- that they use, so Waste Management of Maryland, where does it get that?  Is that from one of those service companies? 

     A.   One of the service providers owns all the intellectual property, including the green and gold colors, and the color scheme that -- that is used for advertisements on the side of trucks, on the side of containers.  That is all licensed under that service agreement.  That is part of the fee


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paid by each corporate entity is the license fee for that. 

     Q.   Okay.  And so, the owner of that -- that brand name, that is the entity that Waste Management of Maryland is doing business with who actually controls the -- 

     A.   Under -- doing business under the management services agreement.  I mean, that is -- 

     Q.   (Inaudible.)  Yes.  Yes.  So I'm saying that the -- whoever -- the company that owns that trademark or owns that, you know, the registered owner of that trademark is the company that Waste Management of Maryland is doing business with to make that -- make that connection? 

     A.   Correct. 

     Q.   Okay.  And in terms of the -- so, I heard  you said that that was Waste Management intellectual property -- 

     A.   Yeah.  I believe that's -- 

     Q.   All right.  And so, how long has Waste Management of Maryland been around?   When were


 they incorporated? 

     A.   Waste Management of Maryland is 30 or 40


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 years old.  I don't know -- 

     Q.   Okay. 

     A.   -- the exact date of incorporation off the top of my head.  And I don't want you to read anything into it --

     Q.   No.  I understand.  

     A.   -- facts -- I could get that answer easily enough.  I can't say that I remember off the top of my head. 

     Q.   No.  I appreciate our discussion --

     A.   It's a Maryland corporation.

          Waste Management, Inc. is a Delaware corporation.  

          Waste Management Holdings, Inc. is a Delaware corporation.

          Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. is a Maryland corporation.  

          I don't know the federal ID number off the top of my head, but each one of the companies has


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 their own ID number. 

     Q.   Okay.  All right.  So would you say that if -- so if, for instance, if Waste Management Holdings, Inc. held a -- held the trademark, Waste Management of Maryland had to license the trademark from Waste Management of Maryland -- or Waste Management Holdings, Inc.? 

     A.   If they did.  

     Q.   Yes.  Okay.  

          And in terms of the -- so, how was Waste Management -- when did Waste Management get started?  Give or take like -- you know -- the current iteration.  Like what we recognize now as Waste Management. 

     A.   Waste Management has been in operation continuously since the late  60s, I believe.  But it has gone through a number of different corporate iterations, mergers.  So the Waste Management most people are dealing with now was in some ways born in 1998, when USA Waste and Waste Management merged.  And so, a lot of the current structure of


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the company is the result of a 1998 merger between those two large companies. 

          But Waste Management, Inc. was in operation before that.  I think back in the  60s. 

     Q.   Okay.  So Waste Management of Maryland was incorporated as a subsidiary -- so it wasn't like a company they bought and folded in the umbrella? 

     A.   And I don't mean to be hyper technical.

     Q.   That's fine. 

     A.   They -- there might have been an acquisition company that was acquired and made Waste Management of Maryland, Inc.

     Q.   Got it.  Okay. 

     A.   I don't know.  But -- 

     Q.   But you have corporate records now. 

     A.   We would have corporate records that demonstrates exactly where Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. started, if it changed its name through merger or anything.  We would have records of that all the way back to the start. 

     Q.   Right.  That sounds great. 


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          And so -- so Waste Management -- has it always been this kind of -- you know, the services infrastructure, like that's always been how the -- was that setup like from that 1998 date?

     A.   I -- all I can say is the current version of the management services agreement is the 16th or 17th version.  I'm not sure what Exhibit One says, if it was the 16th.  It's the 16th.  It's renewed every couple of years. 

     Q.   Okay. 

     A.   So, it goes back at least that long under that structure.  What existed before then, I don't know. 

     Q.   Yeah.  That's fine. 

          But in terms of Waste Management of Maryland, it has always been using the WM, you know, branding?  It has always had the green and yellow trucks for as long as that's existed? 

     A.   Correct.  That -- before 1998 we were actually maroon in color.  So, when green and gold was adopted by the -- by the enterprise, Waste


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Management of Maryland adopted the green and gold. 

     Q.   Okay.  Fantastic.  All right.

          And so -- and it has always been licensed through like Waste Management Intellectual Property and all that sort of thing? 

     A.   It's always licensed under this agreement. 

     Q.   Under this agreement.  Okay.  Yes.  And I'm not trying to ask you to go back to like before your tenure or things like that but...

          So, in terms of the -- so one thing that brings to mind is that the current -- the arm of WM.com, and I can bring it up if it will help -- sorry.  It looks like MWM.com here.  

          Down at the bottom here, so this is where it says -- Intellectual Property Holdings, LLC.  And so this is how we know that this is actually under Waste Management -- Property Holdings as -- 
     A.   It's the copyright.  It says that the copyright of this material belongs to WM Intellectual Property Holdings, LLC.  That --

     Q.   Okay.  And that's always been the case, as


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far as you know?

     A.   As far as I know. 

     Q.   Okay.  And in terms of -- okay.

          So, Waste Management of Maryland has nothing to do necessarily with WM.com;  right;  other than when -- you know, someone at the service company gets a phone call, or a contract or, you know, an inquiry, get an email, or through the web -- or something like that, Waste Management of Maryland is not the -- where those things are directed right from the off? 

     A.   The only way I can answer that is to say it depends on what somebody who goes to WM.com is trying to do.  If they are just looking for information, they can get the information.  It will be --

     Q.   Okay.

     A.   If you are trying to do business with Waste Management and you are based in Maryland, and you -- if you are a customer, you have an account and your account takes you into your own personal


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or business account.  And you can -- and if you are based in Maryland and you're getting Maryland services, you can do certain things through the website for your account?

          If you're attempting to establish service with Waste Management, you can go to WM.com and -- and set up an account, hire us.

     Q.   Got it. 

     A.   And it's based upon where you're located is the entity that you would ultimately be doing business with. 

          So if a new customer in -- in Baltimore wanted to establish service with Waste Management and try to do that through the website, and say it was a commercial customer and a service agreement would be generated by that transaction, that service agreement would be generated in the name of Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. because the customer is located in Waste Management -- or in Maryland.  And the trucks that would then service that customer would be trucks owned by Waste


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Management of Maryland, Inc. 

          So it's all driven by where the customer is located. 

     Q.   Okay.  For the record, I have typed in -- into the search bar on WM.com just Maryland and I have navigated to a link that says services in the Baltimore, Maryland area.  

          So it's not Waste Management of Maryland that is operating this website that is advertising to Maryland residents and businesses? 

     A.   It's Waste Management. 

     Q.   Yes.  But there was an entity or entities that are actually responsible for targeted advertising to Waste Management -- or to potential customers in Maryland? 

     A.   Waste Management Intellectual Property, LLC. 

     Q.   So that is the entity that is actually involved in the doing of the -- 

     A.   They copyrighted all of this content, so it is their content. 


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     Q.   Okay.  Are there any other companies that are involved, say in the, you know cloud storage, or in the, you know -- how are the other services arranged?

     A.   Other than how the management services agreement operates, I -- I don't know how our cloud services is --

     Q.   Yeah.  Not necessarily -- I'm not asking for the technical details.  But I mean are you -- which organizations are responsible for, you know -- we've talked about the spread over -- 

     A.   The service providers -- one of the service providers would do -- I mean, information systems management.  Big -- big category.  Information systems management is provided by one of the service -- one or more of the service providers to the service recipients.  Waste Management of Maryland would be a service recipient. 

     Q.   Okay.  All right. 

     A.   But, again, they are defining the


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agreement.  It's not Waste Management, Inc. and it's not Waste Management Holdings, Inc. that does those.  It's one of the service providers. 

     Q.   That makes sense. 

          How do we find out from -- from the websites -- I mean, one of the initial problems I had and I got (Inaudible) from this in the federal lawsuit,  was that -- that I should have known that Waste Management of Maryland was the proper entity to bring the suit.  But I can't find any information about it on-line.  You don't know to search for Waste Management of Maryland.  There is no -- there is no information.  There is no -- it has almost no public presence.  Unless, do you know of any that -- 

     A.   Of Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. is on file with the corporations department of the government of Maryland.  You could find -- 

     Q.   Sorry.  I don't mean to -- I don't mean to that level.  I meant as far as like -- so Waste Management of Maryland doesn't do its own


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advertising? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Let him answer the question. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Sorry.  Yes. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Put that question back --

          THE WITNESS:  Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. has records with the corporations office.  It has a registered agent for services process under the -- maintained by the corporations office.  

          If -- WM, the enterprise, has a website.  If you use a Maryland address, you will be doing business with Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  Yeah. 

          THE WITNESS:  It depends on how -- 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   So part of the -- part of the Maryland code talks about us, you know, advertising, targeting directly to Maryland businesses and residents.  And so I'm trying to understand which is -- which of the Waste Management -- the actual entity, not the Waste Management umbrella, but like


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the actual entities are actually doing business with -- you know, providing targeted advertising to Maryland residents and businesses. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  I object.  I think he has already asked and answered that question.  There is a legal component to what you asked him as well.  Those objections -- 

          THE WITNESS:  Yeah.  Let me just try to say that -- Waste Management has WM.com.  If people come to our website, they come to our website. 

          Waste Management of Maryland owns the trucks that run down the street with advertising on the side.  If there's any advertising done in the state of Maryland, that's Waste Management of Maryland doing that advertising.  

          So it's Waste Management of Maryland doing that advertising.  They're going to use the service mark Waste Management or WM.  They're not going to use Waste Management of Maryland, although I think a lot of the trucks specifically have the name Waste Management of Maryland on the side with the


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address, phone number.  The permits and other approvals might require that. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Sure.

          THE WITNESS:  But -- so I don't -- you can access WM.com from Timbuktu.  I don't know -- anyone and everyone can access WM.com, as long as they have internet access. 

          But physically, things happening in Maryland, like the sides of our trucks, and any other signage you see would be Waste Management of Maryland doing that advertising. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  Yeah. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   And I interrupted.  I understand that Waste Management of Maryland does sort of passive advertising in terms of, you know, advertising on the trucks and things like that.  My concern more is with the website itself.

          And so, would it be fair to say that Waste Management of Maryland is not responsible for any of the advertising as a direct -- you know, input -


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- is not doing advertising to Maryland businesses and residents through WM.com?  That was a convoluted question. 

     A.   No.  But, I mean, all I can say is, as a service recipient, through a service provider under the management services agreement, you are able to access WM.com in Maryland. 

     Q.   Sure. 

     A.   I mean, it's all part and parcel of -- one of the WM entities controls all of that for the enterprise.  And Waste Management of Maryland is one of the recipients of that. 

     Q.   Okay.  And so, but any -- would you say that any entity that is providing services or listing services, or has -- you know, has claimed control over the Waste Management website, WM.com, or any of those things, is -- you know, is doing business in Maryland? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Object to the form.  

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  

          MR. GAMBLE:  The question calls for a


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legal conclusion. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  All right.  That's still allowed. 

          THE WITNESS:  I -- if there is intellectual property, it's being licensed to Waste Management of Maryland. 

          If there is information systems that are being managed by one entity, Waste Management of Maryland is one of the recipients that gets the benefit of that information system management. 

          I don't know how else to answer it. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  No.  And I don't mean to -- to beat a dead horse here. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   You know, clearly, at least in your opinion, but -- that you think I have sued the wrong company.  And so I'm trying to understand what company you think would have been the appropriate company to sue. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Well, I'm just going to object. 


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          MR. O'REILLY:  Sure.  Yeah. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  It calls for a legal conclusion.  But if -- 

          THE WITNESS:  I don't know that we're having a conversation.  I'm here to answer your questions. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  No.  

          THE WITNESS:  But let me say this.  A Waste Management of Maryland truck was servicing customers in Baltimore in October of 2017 when the incident that is at the start of all of this occurred.  That was a Waste Management of Maryland, Incorporated truck.  The crew on that truck were employees of Waste Management of Maryland, Inc.  The supervisors of that crew were employees of Waste Management of Maryland, Inc.  So you were dealing with Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. on that day.

          You see service marks that might be owned by someone else.  

          You see the color scheme that might be


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owned by someone else.  But all of that was provided to Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. by contract at arm's length so that it can do business in Baltimore as Waste Management. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay. 

          THE WITNESS:  So Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. is who you were engaged with. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Yeah.  That is fair to say. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   In terms of -- so you're saying that Waste Management, Incorporated does not have anything to do with WM.com that is -- you know, it is so far removed that it has no claim to any of it? 

     A.   That characterization is inaccurate.  Waste Management, Incorporated is a holding company.  It doesn't even have employees.  It doesn't even issue W-2's.

     Q.   So it has zero employees? 

     A.   Zero employees. 

     Q.   Does it have a board?  I don't know. 

     A.   I think, management services for the


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parent company are provided by employees employed by someone else.  

          Waste Management, Inc. doesn't issue W- 2's.  It doesn't have employees.  It gets management services through a management services agreement.  Those employees are actually employed by someone else. 

          I provide legal services for the family of companies in the Eastern United States.  I am employed by WM Corporate Services, one of the service providers. 

     Q.   Right. 

     A.   That's the way it's all structured.  Waste Management, Inc. is the publicly traded corporate parent that has no employees, no operations except subsidiaries. 

          It doesn't own property in Maryland or anywhere else. 

          It doesn't own intellectual property in Maryland or anywhere else. 

          It owns the stock of Waste Management


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Holdings, Inc. and that's all it does.  I can't say it any more plainly than that. 

     Q.   And I'm really -- forgive the commentary, but why couldn't we have -- six years ago.  It would have saved us all a lot of time and hassle. 

          But the -- so, anything that -- yeah.  So Waste Management didn't -- you're saying that Waste Management never owned any -- any of that intellectual property.  It's never licensed any of that intellectual property.  It's never been involved with WM.com.  Am I getting that correct? 

     A.   It's the parent at the top that owns the stock of Waste Management Holdings.  Everything else is somewhere below -- 

     Q.   Yes.  Yes.  Go ahead. 

     A.   And again, any time -- any things, intellectual property, services, it's done at arm's length by contract for payment.  That's accounted for.  

     Q.   That makes sense to me.  Okay. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Mr. O'Reilly, the -- do you


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want to mark your -- those -- 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Oh, yes.  I'm -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  -- for the record? 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Yes.  Thank you, Mr. Gamble.  I truly appreciate it.  That's -- quite literally. 

          So the WM.com domain -- or the -- which record that's already been -- has been noted?

          THE REPORTER:  Whois will be marked as number three. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  That was two. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  That was two.  Okay.  

          MR. GAMBLE:  The screen shot was -- 

          THE REPORTER:  The screen shot.  I have it as Waste Management registration.  Okay.  That's number two. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  And then the Waste Management.com website itself -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  You can say the homepage. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  The homepage. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Exhibit Three. 


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          MR. O'REILLY:  Will be Exhibit Three.

          (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Number Three was marked for identification.)  

          MR. O'REILLY:  And then the Baltimore advertising -- you know, the markets within Maryland will be -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Baltimore search inquiry. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Sure.  And the results thereof. 

          (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Number Four was marked for identification.)  

          MR. GAMBLE:  My second question is, we have been going for an hour and 12 minutes.  Could we take a -- 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Absolutely.  Yeah.  I would like that very much.  I'm parched.  

          THE REPORTER:  Going off the record. 

          (Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.) 

          THE REPORTER:  We are back on the record. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   So since you brought it up, I'd like to


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talk about the incident that happened in Baltimore.  And I'd like to show you a little bit of the video that you all -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  I'm going to object.  It has no relevance to the subject matter of this deposition.  I think the witness has already testified that he did not view the video and I don't see the relevance of the question of whether  Waste Management does -- does business in Maryland. 

          THE WITNESS:  I know that the incident happened.  I don't know anything else about the incident and I'm not here to talk about the incident.  I'm here to talk about our corporate structure. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Right.  And so, the -- my interest in this is regarding the support that the -- the owner received after the incident.  Talking about the -- and who they dealt with, who they interacted with on the outside. 

          So it is a -- it speaks to the overall


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Waste Management, Incorporated's umbrella, you know, as Waste Management.  And so -- beg your indulgence in allowing me -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  You can play the video and then we'll just take your questions one at a time. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  Yeah.  That's perfectly fine. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  I'm not convinced that that is going to be of -- possible relevance. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Yeah.  Thank you.  I appreciate it.  

          MR. GAMBLE:  Can you identify this for the record? 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Yes.  So the -- I don't know if this -- were these from you or were they from -- do you know?

          THE WITNESS:  I don't know. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  

          Either safety management or (Inaudible) management provided copies of the portions of the two cameras that were mounted on the side of the


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building that captured part of the incident.

          A couple of things to note here is that there are portions of this that are either redacted.  There are portions of this that are sped up.  But it is no -- no longer than the actual incidents took place (Inaudible) compressed.  I haven't gotten a full copy of it yet.  

          So this is the beginning of the video that was sent.  And I pulled this together, edited together so that they're -- the two camera links are actually synchronized in time. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  So this is an edited version of -- of the video -- in connection with this case? 

          MR. O'REILLY:  It is a new video that incorporates the full copies of both of the original videos and synchronizes them in time. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Synchronized by you.  Edited and synchronized by you? 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Yeah.  And is should be clear that, you know, the flashing of the -- things like that is, you know, are actually lined up.  It


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took me about 30 hours to do this, so this is a meticulous piece. 

          So here we see the Waste Management truck picking up -- collecting -- I'm sorry it's so small, but this is what they gave me.  So collecting, prior to getting -- and I'll give you some context here. 

          This building on the right you can see there is a -- the camera is looking down an alleyway.  Across the alleyway from the camera there is a telephone pole and a gray door.  That building is 3209 North Charles Street, which was the building that was -- you know, where all of this happened in front of or behind. 

          And so, we see them coming up the alleyway here.  Actually -- collecting.  

          And we're going to skip ahead and so we are seeing Mr. Priolau, Mr. Palmer actually beginning the operation of removing waste from the -- and this happened for about nine or ten minutes. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Just -- 


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          MR. O'REILLY:  Yes, sir. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  I'm just going to object on the narrative.  You know, it's highly unusual to create a narrative on a video that you have edited prior to asking questions about it. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  I'm sorry.  Yes. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  It is your deposition.  You can do what, you know, what you want within reason, but I'm just going to note my objection. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  I appreciate that.  Yes. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  This is your characterization of a video that you've edited. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  So that's the reason why I had myself sworn in, so I can lay the foundation for the -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  That's unusual.  I haven't seen that done.  You know, this is not your deposition. 

          MR. OWEN:  Understood. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  This is not a court proceeding, so I object that any of this is sworn


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testimony, other than anything that Mr. Viola says in response to a question that you ask. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  Give me a minute here.  

          What we see, right above that blue container in the upper lefthand corner of this portion of the video, and this is at ten minutes and eight seconds into the video.  You can see me walking out towards the -- toward the truck. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  I mean, how are we to know that that's you?  

          MR. O'REILLY:  (Inaudible.)

          THE WITNESS:  I'm not here to talk about any of this, sir.  I -- can you ask me a question that -- that leads to something about the structure of our family of companies and whether or not Waste Management, Inc. is subject to the jurisdiction of the court in Maryland?  I don't know how this gets you there. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  
     Q.   Okay.  So -- so does the mission -- what


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is it, Mission to Zero (Inaudible)?

     A.   Mission to Zero is a slogan.  It's a service mark and slogan that we have used about safety. 

     Q.   Okay.  And that safety is regarding drivers and operators of vehicles? 

     A.   Everyone. 

     Q.   Okay.  Can you tell me a little bit more about that?  So it's not just a slogan, right?  It's a program.  It's actually something that was going rather? 

     A.   Mission to Zero -- well, there's safety services.  Forgive me for being repetitive.  

     Q.   No.  I -- 

     A.   That is one of the things that is provided to the service recipients by the service providers.  With that comes slogans and signage and -- and things like that.  

          Every corporate entity is responsible for its own safety.  The safety of its employees.  The safety of the public, et cetera, et cetera.  


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          So I -- does that answer your question? 

     Q.   It did.  It did.  Yeah.  Yeah.  I'll move on to another one. 

          So, Ray Palmer is the driver and the operator of this -- of this particular vehicle;  right? 

     A.   I don't know that. 

     Q.   Okay.  All right.  

     A.   I'm not doubting you.

     Q.   No.  I understand. 

     A.   If you say that he was the driver, that's fine. 

     Q.   Right.  Let me just -- I think that's been fairly well established.  

          So we know that -- can you say that Mr. Palmer did or did not attend one of -- you know, the driver training that was provided by the Waste Management Safety Services or -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection as to relevance.  I'm directing the witness not to answer.  He is not going to know the answer to it.  It has nothing to


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do with the subject of this deposition. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Well, I'd prefer the witness to answer for himself.  He can say the same thing, but -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  I'm instructing him not to answer.  It has nothing to do with the deposition. 

          THE WITNESS:  No.  There is no relationship between whether or not Mr. Palmer attended a course and whether Waste Management, Inc. is subject to personal jurisdiction. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  If Waste Management, Incorporated has enough clout, power, influence on the subsidiary companies to be able to enforce things like safety when an employee of one of those subsidiaries violates one of those directives, it is actually violating a Waste Management, Incorporated directive.  Not a Waste Management of Maryland, Incorporated directive or not only a Waste Management of Maryland -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  As Mr. Viola testified probably a dozen or so times because it is -- the


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document that is actually relevant to the subject matter of this deposition, there are other service providers that provide those services that you're asking about.  

          Waste Management, Inc. is not them.  It  is a holding company that owns stock.  It is not a service provider.

          So the hypothetical that you're attempting to establish to create some sort of relevance to your question doesn't exist. 

          And so I'm going to again direct the witness not to answer that question. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   So you're saying that each of those corporations, the service companies, has the ability to dictate that Waste Management of Maryland follow their -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  I don't believe he testified to that.  

          THE WITNESS:  No.  That's not --

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  


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     Q.   Could you rephrase it for me, please? 

     A.   Waste Management of Maryland is responsible for the safety of its people.  The fact that it gets safety service information from one of the service providers, it's just material provided to Waste Management of Maryland for Waste Management of Maryland to implement safety routines, safety protocols, safety training, all of that. 

          Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. takes care of that for Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. employees. 

          Waste Management, Inc. just isn't involved in that.  They are just the holding company at the top.  I don't want to keep repeating that. 

     Q.   I understand.  But the -- but Waste Management of Maryland didn't originate the Mission to Zero;  right?  It was not a Waste Management of Maryland idea? 

     A.   I don't know.

     Q.   Where did that --


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     A.   It's a company wide, an enterprise wide program.  So safety services, whichever of the service providers provides safety services to the other operating subsidiaries -- you're asking me to speculate.  I don't know where Mission to Zero originated.  I don't know which corporate entity came up with that slogan. 

          All I can tell you is in general we have safety services provided by one of the service providers.  It's advice and information and then each corporate entity takes that and develops their own service plan.  Their own safety plan. 

          Are they going to use Mission to Zero?  Of course they are because that is the -- the branding that -- that the entire enterprise was using at the time.  That was the slogan around safety that the entire enterprise was using at the time. 

          But the employees on the screen were the employees of Waste Management of Maryland. 
     Q.   Okay.  So they were under no direction from Waste Management Holdings, Waste Management,


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Incorporated? 

     A.   No.  

          THE REPORTER:  I'm sorry.  Could we just take a minute to stop the toilet from running? 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Oh, yes. 

          THE REPORTER:  I'm hearing it in my microphone.  Sorry.  Just shut the door maybe. 

          THE WITNESS:  Are we on the record? 

          THE REPORTER:  Yes. 

          THE WITNESS:  To try to help direct you a little bit, paragraph 1.11 of the management service agreement talks about environmental health and safety services. 

          The service providers shall provide consulting in environmental health and safety related matters as necessary in connection with the business performed by the service recipient. 

          So what I described, the service providers service consultants, at arm's length, they get paid for that.  It's accounted for in safety. 

          But Waste Management of Maryland is


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responsible for implementing its safety program after it gets consulting services from one of the service providers.  

          I think that answers your question, but -- but paragraph 1.11 in the agreement.  And intellectual property is covered in a different paragraph.  I mean, this agreement kind of is the road map for how the service providers provide, as paid consultants, services to the service recipients, which -- and Waste Management of Maryland would be a service recipient.   Sorry for --

          MR. O'REILLY:  No.  Quite all right. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Forgive me.  It is a little bit -- this is very new, so I'm -- I'd like to know who Mr. Paul Marker actual -- who his actual employer is. 

     A.   I'm not sure I know who Paul Marker is. 

     Q.   I don't really know -- but apparently he has a WM.com email address and so he is part of the WM family. 


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          MR. GAMBLE:  Could you identify the document for the record?  Not you -- Mr. O'Reilly. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Yes. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  I would say I would identify it for the record because the court reporter won't be able to -- 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Understood.  Yes.  So this is the -- this is Bates number WM_0000109. 

          THE REPORTER:  And did you want to make that an exhibit? 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Please. 

          THE REPORTER:  Okay.  And what are we calling that?  Email?

          MR. O'REILLY:  This is the Tuesday, October 17th, 2017 email at 9:29 a.m. from Paul Marker -- I don't know if we need to put -- 

          (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Number Five was marked for identification.)  

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  
     Q.   I'd also like to know who Frank Pagano, who his employer is.  Is he a Waste Management of


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Maryland --

     A.   It is Waste Management of Maryland. 

     Q.   Okay.  

     A.   I don't know that for certain.  I -- just looking at the email on the screen, it appears that he is a Waste Management of Maryland employee. 

     Q.   I'd like to read the content of this particular email from Paul Marker.  I -- just introduce it as an exhibit.  Is it appropriate for me to read this or -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  You can read it.  I'm going to object because it doesn't have any relevance. 

          THE WITNESS:  I don't know who Paul Marker is. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  

          THE WITNESS:  Other than -- if he has a WM email address, then he was a WM employee.  But I'm just telling you, I don't know who Paul Marker is. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Right.  Yeah.  But we are trying to establish what the correct entity is here.  If it's not Waste Management, Incorporated,


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then let's move forward.

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   But this is the part that I find very disturbing.  This is again from Paul Marker to Frank Pagano, sent on -- I'm going to introduce this as part of that same email chain that -- so this is an email sent -- sent to me in data format that was sent to me as pdf's, so -- it's the same WM -- it's the same Bates number, so I guess it's the same exhibit.  

          But Mr. Marker says, "10.4 most likely we can have Mr. O'Reilly  dealt with' and this won't be an issue."  

          I'd very much like to find out who Paul Marker works for -- or worked for. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  I'm going to object.  This witness has never seen this email before.  He said he doesn't know who Paul Marker worked for, so that's asked and answered.  And the question you  asked does relate to personal jurisdiction potentially, but -- the witness has answered he


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doesn't know who Paul Marker is. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  And I'm trying not to bother you with questions that are going to be irrelevant.  

          We are at the hour and a half mark.  I think I will reserve my remaining time for redirect after you have asked -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  I do not have any questions of the witness at this point. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay. 

          MR. PHILLIPS:  No questions from me. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  All right.  

          Would it be all right to take a break? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Sure. 

          THE REPORTER:  Going off the record. 

          (Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.) 

          THE REPORTER:  We are back on the record. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   I am -- I'm torn a bit because there are questions that I want to ask you because I'm afraid that if I don't, I'm going to have to make the --


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note depositions for other Waste Management entities and -- sort of being -- and be -- in the dark about trying to identify which Waste Management entity I need to bring in to do the questioning to find out if they were involved or responsible for, you know, or in part for the incident that happened.  And I'm hoping to avoid that for your, mine, and everybody's -- trying to be mindful of the scope within the (Inaudible).

          Does Waste Management Safety Services provide all of the training materials and everything like that that goes towards driver safety? 

     A.   Waste Management -- you said Waste Management Safety Services? 

     Q.   Yeah.  That was who you mentioned, isn't it? 

     A.   Well, safety services is one of the -- the things provided by the service providers.  I'm not sure of the exact name of the service provider.  But using that term just generically, safety


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services.  Again, the service providers, on a consulting basis, provide materials for each of the entities -- the service recipients, like Waste Management of Maryland, to adopt, modify as necessary, to fit their operations.  You know, I mean, each -- each entity needs to take what the consultants provided and sometimes third parties are engaged to provide some of that material as well.  And then develop their own safety plan. 

          But each corporate entity is responsible for adopting and deploying the safety protocols. 

     Q.   Right.  Right.  But, you know, if -- if it turns out that Mr. Paul Marker does, in fact, work for an entity that is not Waste Management of Maryland and not a part of the suit, there's an independent call to action -- really not want to go down that route.  I'm trying to find -- 

     A.   It's your representation.  I'm not sure as to what you are talking about. 

     Q.   Okay.  Then the independent, you know -- is part of that and (Inaudible).


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          And so, Waste Management, Incorporated -- again, can Waste Management, Incorporated request things from its subsidiaries?  Could they request documents?  Could they request that its subsidiaries actually do things?  Is it possible -- is the entity capable of --

     A.   I'm trying to understand that question.  Again, Waste Management, Inc. is a holding company.  I don't know who would be requesting and what they would be requesting.  I need more from you. 

     Q.   So I'm -- there's a lot of documentation which was requested to be brought along today and Waste Management, Incorporated was, you know -- was required to produce documentation that is within its control or -- sorry, I lost the word -- or was available to it.  And since that documentation hasn't been provided that leaves us with a large dearth of knowledge and information here.  And why wasn't the -- you know, other than -- you said the objections themselves.  Was that the only -- was the objections that you've noted the only reason


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that more documentation was not provided today? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  We can talk about that off- line.  I'm not being deposed today. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  I'm actually directing the question to the witness. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  That's a question directed to me and we can discuss that off-line. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Mr. Viola, why did you not bring more documentation here today? 

     A.   I brought the documentation I believe I needed to bring with me to answer your questions about whether Waste Management, Inc. is subject to the jurisdiction of a Maryland court. 

     Q.   But it did not comply with the request in the deposition notice? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  

          MR. O'REILLY:  Nature? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  That's not a question.  

          THE WITNESS:  That was a statement. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  


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          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Did it comply with the request noted in the deposition? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  This is a witness who is providing testimony.  The requests were served through counsel and I responded to those requests.  Again, we can discuss that off-line.  This witness is not going to answer those questions. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  

          One last thing that I have here.  If I may -- but I want to bring this up here.  I want to -- I'm sorry.  I'm bringing up CNN.com, specifically Edition.CNN.com.  I would like to mark this as an exhibit.  It is entitled "Where Waste Management Can't Collect Trash."  

          It is the CEO, David Steiner, talks to Adam Tsottles about the few places in the United States where Waste Management is not able to pick up garbage, two minutes, 18 seconds, source is CNN.

          For some reason, it is not playing. So I


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am going to switch to YouTube.com and this will be the next -- and it is CNN's businesses verify YouTube channel.  The same title, "Where Waste Management Can't Collect Trash."  Same length.  Two minutes, 18 seconds.  And we're just going to watch this. 

          (Plays video.  Not transcribed herein.)

          BY MR. O'REILLY:

     Q.   I'm going to pause it here for a second.  So that is David Steiner, who was the president and CEO of Waste Management?

     A.   Correct. 

     Q.   Was he president and CEO of Waste Management, Incorporated? 

     A.   He was president and CEO of Waste Management -- yes.  He is Waste Management corporate. 

     Q.   Okay.  All right.  So he is speaking on behalf of Waste Management, Incorporated? 

     A.   He is -- he is one of the officers.  And at the time he would have also been on the board of


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directors for Waste Management, Inc. 

          His employer would not have been Waste Management, Inc.  His employer very likely would have been USA Waste Management Resources, LLC, one of the service providers. 

          I know this might strike you as odd, but it's true.  Even the officers and directors for a pure holding company are provided by someone else. 

          Waste Management, Inc. is -- pays for these employees to serve as its officers and directors.  And so, he was the CEO -- president and CEO of Waste Management.  The president and CEO of Waste Management, Inc., but that wasn't his employer.  

     Q.   No.  I understand.  Yeah.  But -- I appreciate the clarification -- so Waste Management, Inc. doesn't actually do anything? 

     A.   It holds the stock of Waste Management --

     Q.   It holds the stock of other and reports the income back that it funnels through it from all of its subsidiaries?


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     A.   It reports its financial results according to generally accepted accounting practices. 

     Q.   No.  No.  I understand that.  But in terms of -- so like -- so Waste Management, Incorporated is a -- you know, I think Fortune had it listed as earning 20 billion, 450 million dollars in 2023.  And that is -- so, all it did was collect that -- that money from the subsidiaries and -- 

     A.   That's -- 

     Q.   -- distribute it generally? 

     A.   That's a consolidated number. 

     Q.   Okay.  All right.  

     A.   Consolidated amongst its 500 operating entities across the United States.  Financial results are always reported on a consolidated basis. 

     Q.   Okay.  Do we know how much -- what percentage of that Maryland comprises? 

     A.   I don't.  

     Q.   Okay. 

     A.   I don't.  When you report on a


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consolidated basis, you very often -- well, I don't.  I think the answer to your question is I don't. 

     Q.   Okay.  All right.  I mean --

     A.   But there are accounting books and records that would demonstrate that. 

     Q.   Okay.  Under the control of Waste Management, Incorporated? 

     A.   Well, Waste Management of Maryland would have them.  And then Waste Management, the publicly traded entity that's reporting on a consolidated basis, would also have them.

          Its audit and accounting services, provided by a service provider, would have them. And then they would be reported on behalf of Waste Management, Inc. 
     Q.   Okay.  They were specifically noted in the -- in the deposition notice to be -- requested to be brought today.  
     A.   I don't have access to those documents.  I wouldn't have access to -- 


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     Q.   Yes.  But you are the designee on behalf of Waste Management, Incorporated, so -- 

     A.   To talk about the structure of the Waste Management family of companies. 

     Q.   Well, and -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  You are arguing with the witness.  Take it up with me.  

          THE WITNESS:  I'm not an accountant. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   No.  I understand.  I understand. 

          So, Waste Management, Inc. doesn't actually know how much -- doesn't know how much of its business is -- Waste Management of Maryland has generated? 

     A.   Of course it does. 

     Q.   Does it know how much of its -- but you're telling me that you don't know, but you are speaking for Waste Management, Incorporated.  You don't know -- 

     A.   Yes. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Mr. O'Reilly, you're asking



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him a data point of a $25 billion publicly held company. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  That was specifically noted in the deposition and -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  It is beyond the scope. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  -- for which -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Beyond the scope. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  If it goes to jurisdiction. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  He is giving you the organization and the ownership, which you have acknowledged.  There is a complete distinction between these entities.  It's been acknowledged on the record today in his answers and in your questions, and -- on the record. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  All right. 

          THE WITNESS:  Percentage, I can't give you an exact percentage, but I'm going to guess that a percentage that they do probably in the 15 percent -- 15 - 20 percent of the --

          MR. O'REILLY:  Yeah. 

          THE WITNESS:  It may vary -- 


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          MR. O'REILLY:  (Inaudible.)  Right? 

          THE WITNESS:  Yeah.  Exactly.  And so, more and more of these -- and then you've also got cities and other municipalities now -- that are in the landfill business.  So generally what they'll do is they'll have landfills for their communities, right.  So all the waste management duty goes to that community.  That's probably another -- on the landfill side, that's probably another ten to 15 percent.  

          So, you know, there's times when we work with -- with municipalities.  We'll use their landfill if they have a -- if they have a landfill -- we work with them by telling them to privatize their system.  And then at other times, work with them -- scheduling collection.  We'll do recycling.  We'll do lots of different things.

          But you've got -- mostly what you've got is -- is a partnership with the communities that we serve.  I don't view them.  Somebody who --  frankly as -- 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  
     Q.   Where -- where in the United States, are


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 you not? 

     A.   Wyoming.  Montana. 

     Q.   (Inaudible.)

     A.   Yeah.  I was in Jacksonville, Wyoming two years ago. 

     Q.   So this is a bit of a sticking point for us here.  So Mr. Steiner said -- he was asked where in the United States are you not.  And his response was Wyoming and Montana.  

          And so, do you agree that Waste Management is in all 48 other states? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  Objection.  It hasn't been established that Mr. Viola has seen this video.  I just want to establish that for the record, a foundational point. 

          THE WITNESS:  All I can say in response to that question is we have, like I mentioned a couple of times, about 500 operating entities all across the United States.  I guess what David is saying


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there is we don't have an operating entity in Wyoming or Montana.  I don't cover the Western United States, so -- 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Okay.  But Waste Management, Incorporated is aware that it has subsidiaries in Maryland? 

     A.   What -- I'm going to suppose what David is speaking about there is that through all of our operating subsidiaries, we cover a large footprint of the company.  All of those independent companies that I've mentioned.  He's referring to that on a consolidated basis. 

     Q.   And (Inaudible) and that replica of a Waste Management truck -- instead of the WM -- on it, it has MW.  Now what -- 

     A.   No.  I went back and I asked -- I said, what's that all about?  We sold to Mountain Waste a few years ago.  I guess they just renamed the trucks.  They just turned the MW upside down and called them Mountain Waste.  

     Q.   You are in 48 other states, but you're not


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in every big city;  right?

     A.   We're not in every big city, but we're in virtually every big city. 

     Q.   So are you saying that Mr. Steiner is saying that Waste Management (Inaudible) is in every big city? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  I'm going to note another objection on the record.  I'm not sure you've established what the date of this is or what we had established outside of this deposition.  Mr. Steiner stopped being the CEO and president of Waste Management in 2016.  So anything that he's talking about here by virtue of that and by virtue of the fact that this clearly is allegedly taken 11 years ago, has nothing to do with the status of Waste Management, Inc. in 2017 or present day. 

          THE WITNESS:  What I can say in addition to that is I hear that as he's just referring on a consolidated basis.  Waste Management of Maryland has operations in Baltimore.  

          Waste Management of New York has


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operations in New York City. 

          Waste Management of Pennsylvania has operations in Philadelphia.  

          He is talking about major cities.  That's what David is referring to there. 

          He doesn't refer to each individual entity in giving a broad answer like that but that's the way we are structured.  So that's what he's describing. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   And presumably there would be a certain sense under which Waste Management, Incorporated would be considered doing business with -- directly with one of its, you know, subsidiaries or something along those lines? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection. 

          THE WITNESS:  I don't know what you mean by that. 

          THE REPORTER:  I'm sorry.  I didn't hear your response. 

          THE WITNESS:  I just said I don't know


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what you mean by that.  I described how it works a few different times in a few different ways.  Our operating entities, like Waste Management of Maryland, operate in the states where they are based.  They are our operators.  They're the ones that do the work.  

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   All right.  We talked about this a little bit earlier.  So I'm just going to recap a couple of things. 

          So, Waste Management, Inc. recognizes that Adam Tsottles and Ray Palmer are -- were employees of Waste Management of Maryland, Inc.? 

     A.   If that's who their employers are, yes. 

     Q.   Well, no.  I'm asking -- you know, I'm asking -- 

     A.   My understanding is they are employees of Waste Management of Maryland.  That's all I can tell you.  They are not employees of Waste Management, Inc. because Waste Management, Inc. doesn't have employees. 


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     Q.   Understood.  Understood.  But Waste Management, Inc. is aware of and has insight into its subsidiary companies and so it knows what its -- what employees are (Inaudible) right? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  

          MR. O'REILLY:  Basis? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Form. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  So -- so you're saying that -- I'm trying to rephrase it. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   Are Adam Tsottles or were Adam Tsottles,  at the time of the incident, and Ray Palmer employees of Waste Management of Maryland, Inc.? 

     A.   Yes.  

     Q.   Okay.  And Waste Management of Maryland, Inc. is a Maryland based company? 

     A.   It's organized and existing under the laws of the state of Maryland. 

     Q.   All right. 

     A.   It's a Maryland corporation. 

     Q.   All right.  And the -- the other Waste


 Management entities that do business with the service providers and all that sort of thing, they interact directly with Maryland -- Waste Management of Maryland purchases those -- those services and


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 resources from those --

     A.   Yes.  

     Q.   -- other companies?  All right. 

          And I'm trying to be very careful about the scope here, so I -- pardon me that it is taking so long. 

          And -- 

     A.   Can we take one more ten minute break?

          MR. O'REILLY:  Oh, fine.  

          THE REPORTER:  Going off the record. 

          (Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.) 

          THE REPORTER:  We are back on the record. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   And so we were -- so, any company that Maryland -- Waste Management of Maryland interacts with or owns any intellectual property that Waste Management of Maryland purchases or licenses is a


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company that does business with Waste Management of Maryland? 

     A.   I'm sorry.  Was that a question?   I didn't -- 

     Q.   Yes.  Sorry.  Yes.  So I'm just trying to pick up where we left off. 

          So any company that Waste Management of Maryland does business with that provides the services, provides, you know -- that owns the intellectual property, that -- you know, that Waste Management of Maryland either licenses or purchases, or uses, does business with Waste Management of Maryland? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  I'm not sure what the question is.  

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  I'll just object to form. 

          THE WITNESS:  Yeah.  So the contract by which some services are provided to the service recipients --

          MR. O'REILLY:  Yeah.  Let me break it


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down.  

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   So Waste Management would receive services, right, provides whatever it provides -- training, materials -- whatever, right.  So Waste Management of Maryland purchases those -- those services or goods from Waste Management Safety Services, or whatever the company name is.  And so that is a business transaction where Waste Management of Maryland is actually purchasing that from a separate company? 

     A.   It's a contractual transaction, as laid out in Exhibit One, done at arm's length between two independent contractors. 

     Q.   Okay.  Yeah.  And the same goes for -- so the -- you know, Waste Management Intellectual Property Holdings, so any -- 

     A.   That would be a license, I believe.  WM Intellectual Property owns the IP that would be licensed to one -- to Waste Management of Maryland for a fee. 

     Q.   Okay.  All right.  And, yeah, so that's a business transaction between two independent


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 entities? 

     A.   Correct.  

     Q.   Okay.  All right.  And that's whether it's Waste Management Intellectual Property Services or any of the other service companies.  So they -- so like they're -- I'm sorry.  Waste Management of Maryland licenses or uses the email services from, you know, like an IT company, that kind of thing? 

     A.   There is a service provider that does our computer systems, information systems.  So email, sure.  

     Q.   Okay.  

     A.   Again, a service provided for a fee. 

     Q.   Right.  And so, along those lines, so provided -- given that there is an interaction or there is actually business being done between a  Maryland entity and a non-Maryland entity -- these are not -- I shouldn't -- are any of those other entities actually incorporated in Maryland? 


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     A.   I don't know.  I would be surprised if they were.  I hate speculating.  My guess is they are probably Delaware corporations or Texas corporations is my -- but that's just a guess. 

     Q.   Okay.  But you're -- but for any company that is not a Maryland incorporated company, that's an interstate transaction between Maryland -- Waste Management of Maryland and that other company? 

     A.   I guess.  Yes. 

     Q.   Okay. I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself, but it's been -- we have about 35 minutes remaining of the time and bear with me.  Let me collect my thoughts here. 

          So if one of these companies, let's say -- so Waste Management's Intellectual Property Holdings, is that registered to do business in Maryland?  Do they have a registered agent for that in Maryland? 
     A.   I don't know that off the top of my head.  That's something I'd be able to determine.  So it's just not a fact I would keep in the top of my head. 


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     Q.   Okay.  But does the fact -- whether or not it's registered in -- you know, registered in Maryland, the fact that it does continuing business with Waste Management of Maryland with a Maryland based company, would that be enough to suggest Waste Management's -- the Intellectual Property Holdings to --

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  I just want -- finish your question.  Sorry for interrupting.  The witness can answer. 

          THE WITNESS:  You're asking for a legal conclusion.  I don't have an answer to that question. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY: 

     Q.   Okay.  All right.  And based on that -- based on that set of circumstances, is there -- is there anything that you know of that would prevent that from being a -- that would prevent it from being subject to (Inaudible)?


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          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection.  Calls for a legal conclusion.  Calls for speculation. 

          THE WITNESS:  Same thing.  I -- you're asking me to make an ultimate legal conclusion here.  I'm not going to do that. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  That's fair. 

          BY MR. O'REILLY:  

     Q.   And so, to go back to that -- and I think we have a lot clearer understanding now of, you know, the way the Waste Management family works.  And so, I think I better understand the legal conclusion of Waste Management does not do business in Maryland, whether or not I agree with it, and that they -- Waste Management is maintaining that it does not do business in Maryland. 

     A.   Correct.  

     Q.   Okay.  All right.  

          And I apologize if I go over my two hours -- and going back to what we had talked about at the beginning.  Waste Management Holdings, Incorporated, does that do business in Maryland at


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all? 

     A.   It does not.

     Q.   It does not.   Okay.  And --

     A.   I don't want to paint it with a broad brush, but the answers I gave for Waste Management, Inc. pretty much apply to Waste Management Holdings, Inc.  The difference is Waste Management Holdings, Inc. holds the stock of about 100 companies, whereas Waste Management, Inc. only holds the stock of one company, Waste Management Holdings. 

          But Waste Management Holdings, Inc., similar to Waste Management, Inc., is just a holding company. 

     Q.   Right.  

     A.   No employees.  No property.  It doesn't pay taxes in those states.  It doesn't have operations in those states.  The subsidiaries below are the ones that operate state, by state, by state. 

     Q.   All right.  I think Waste Management, Inc.


 would get sued a lot less if that were clearer.  


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     A.   If you're asking --

     Q.   No.  No. 

     A.   We can't control who is sued.  We try to set the record straight when it happens, which is what this deposition is about. 

     Q.   Yeah.  And I appreciate it greatly.  

          So I think we're -- oh, there is one question I wanted to ask.  It will generate an objection, but I'm going to ask it anyway. 

          What does Waste Management know about me? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Objection. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Understood. 

          THE WITNESS:  Other than this lawsuit, I have absolutely no idea what we know about you.  Were you ever a Waste Management customer? 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Not that I'm aware of, or not directly. 

          THE WITNESS:  Then we wouldn't have a customer account in our system somewhere.  I have absolutely no idea what Waste Management knows


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about you.  We are aware of this lawsuit. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  All right.  All right.  I think that -- let me just look at -- one more time. 

          Nothing else is coming to mind, so I think that -- I think I'm going to relinquish the rest of my time. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  No questions for me. 

          MR. PHILLIPS:  No questions. 

          THE REPORTER:  I have a couple questions just before we go off the record.  I need to know about signature. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Yeah.  We'd like to read and sign. 

          THE REPORTER:  And I just want to double check that I have all of the exhibits correctly.  I have five and the last one is the Paul Marker email chain.  Is that correct with everyone? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Five I think is the video.  The video -- email chain.  Six was the document Bates stamped WM109. 


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          THE REPORTER:  That is six.  And five was the video?  Did we mark that? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  I don't think it was marked but it probably should be, as the CNN video. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Yes.  We'll mark the CNN -- 

          THE REPORTER:  Okay.  Can we mark that as six? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  Sure. 

          THE REPORTER:  Okay.  So just CNN video? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  I think that would be seven. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  I'm going to hold off on marking the -- 

          THE REPORTER:  So there's two videos then? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  You've asked about it and then we'll get a copy of it. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Well, I mean, it's all -- what you already have. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  No.  

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  I'll provide you with the -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  You asked questions about it. 


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I think it should be identified for the record so that when we review the transcript we know what we're talking about. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  

          THE REPORTER:  So we have two videos that were marked?  Is that -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  I mean, it's not my deposition.  My recommendation is that we mark every document, whether it was shown in digital  media or on paper.  

          THE REPORTER:  I have that one -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  (Inaudible.)

          THE REPORTER:  Which ones did you want -- did you want to mark the videos? 

          MR. O'REILLY:  So, we'll mark the CNN video.  Yeah.  Just the CNN video. 

          THE REPORTER:  Not the -- 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Not the -- yeah.  

          THE REPORTER:  Thank you.  I just wanted to make sure I had them all correct.  Okay.  And that's all I have. 


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          (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Number Six was marked for identification.)  

          MR. O'REILLY:  And just finally, before we go off the record, I -- just to get it said.  I do object to the lack of preparation and the lack of document production in response to the -- to the notice.  And -- and I believe that the -- there were some -- useful information and I very much appreciate you being here.  It was not -- in compliance with the actual notice itself.  

          Are there any documents, besides the -- the management services agreement that are being produced today? 

          MR. GAMBLE:  There are not.  This was being produced as a good faith effort to create some clarity around the issues as to whether Waste Management, Inc. does business in Maryland.  I think it has been further conclusively established during today's deposition.  

          But as you know, Mr. O'Reilly, the documents that were requested as part of a


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deposition notice require that there be 30 days from the date of notice until the date of the deposition.  That was not provided and so, it was basically invalid.  

          MR. O'REILLY:  The -- 

          MR. GAMBLE:  And in response -- producing records.  Thank you for allowing me to -- 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Sorry.  So -- was served on the 24th of November to Waste Management, Incorporated. 

          MR. GAMBLE:  No.  That was the deposition for David Steiner, a former employee of Waste Management, Inc.  The Waste Management, Inc.  deposition was served on December 1st, 2024, which was, by my count, since Christmas was yesterday, 25 days ago. 

          THE WITNESS:  The financial information you've asked about, of course, Waste Management reports its financial results publicly.  All of that is available on our FCC webpage. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Hopefully, it will give the


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 court enough to make a -- at least an informed decision at this point about whether Waste Management, Inc. is -- Inc. is or is not in Maryland.  

          So thank you all.  I appreciate it.  And I don't know what we need to do to get off the record.  I know that the operator needs to do something and -- 

          THE REPORTER:  I'll announce us off.  

          MR. O'REILLY:  Okay.  All right.  

          THE REPORTER:  Going off the record. 

          MR. O'REILLY:  Thank you. 

          (Whereupon, at 1:46 p.m., the deposition was concluded.)


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             CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY REPORTER
     I, Kathleen S. Wilson, a Notary Reporter, in and for the State of Maryland, County of Anne Arundel, do hereby certify that the Witness whose testimony appears in the foregoing transcript was taken by me and thereafter transcribed by me or under my direction;  that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the testimony given to the best of my ability; that I am neither counsel for, related to nor employed by any of the parties to the action in which this deposition was taken; and further, that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of this action.

                        _____________________

                         Kathleen S. Wilson

                         Notary Reporter My Commission Expires March 14, 2026


